More Marston Nightmares

[coppullcaveman1]

Hi all, I had a visit from Marstons on 29 June, it was for court fine`s incurred by my step children, The fines were in my wifes name as the children were no old enough to have them in their names, they are now 18 and 19 and both working !
My wife is in poor health and has been for some time but I currently claim JSA for both of us, she is excused from signing on due to her ill health and recieves the contributions only portion of employment support allowance (whatever that is ?)

I digress... I went to the front of the house where I was confronted by two thuggish looking men.They identified themselves as certificated Bailiffs They asked for my wife as they had a warrant to come in and remove goods, I immediately shouted to my wife lock the doors which she did. The smaller of the two bailiffs then said to me "dont give me f*****g attitude I`m coming in and we`re taking your possessions". I was behind a full length metal gate at the side of our house at this point then the larger one pushed through me and the gate which is not lockable and the smaller one passed and headed to my back door while telling the big one to call the police and locksmith.

I noticed a small window open and called for my wife to shut it, she had to climb on the settee to do this and as she reached out for the catch , the larger bailiff made a grab for her hand, he connected but she pulled away and lost her balance falling off the settee, this caused her severe pain as she has a prolapsed discc in her lower back.
One tried the back door and then went round to peer through the windows,
I told my wife to drop the blinds which she did, she was very scared by the whole experience. As the blind dropped on the back window the smaller bailiff banged in the glass hard, I stepped forward and said "dont you intimidate my wife like that" I then recieved a slight tap on my shoulder from the bigger bruiser type I turned to face him and he was right in my face and said "I`ll f*****g show you intimidation"
I was briefly shown some warrants (supposedly) and some printed legislation (again supposedly) and I mean so briefly I wasnt even able to see one word.

Anyway we we`re supposedly waiting for the police and a locksmith and the two bailiffs went to the front of the house . I got back inside but was shaking temper and fear that these thugs seemed to think they could do whatever they wanted.
Once inside I called the police and asked if the officers were on their way and I was told that there was nothing on the log for my address... the bailiff had faked the call !!
I looked out of my windows all around the house and there was no sign of the bailiffs (who incidentally arrived in a corsa 3 door or similar) so I ventured back outside locking the door behind me, I went round to the front door and (bear in mind I live in an end terrace on a main road) and on my door was taped a large card 6 x 8 inches not in an envelope but in plain view of anyone passing by with my wifes name on it , the amount owed and the threat that they would be back within 7 days with a locksmith to conclude this matter. Why could the not have shoved it through the letterbox ? The postman has shoved larger items through before today, maybe they didnt want to fold the nice black white and red printed souvenir of their visit.
Now I am not a rocket scientist but initially showing me one of the warrants for £375.00 ( if it was a warrant) surely is illegal as far as data protection goes ? Then publicly posting details of the debt upon our door visible to all does that not contravene something ?
Anyway I called the magistrates and they have temp suspended the warrant until thursday 3rd July, any advice for then would be good, I have not informed them of the bailiffs behaviour yet but I intend to

[coppullcaveman1]

I have called Mr. Roberts as named on the Marston form which was taped to my front door, he first of all denied attending my property then went on to tell me I was obstructive when they came, he would not tell me which court certificated him and said a Mr. Whiteside had left the note pinned to my front door though it was signed D Roberts with his phone number??

called Marston the company and they would not give me the name of the court which certificated the Bailiffs either, told me to ask the bailiff... stonewall ! tried calling Ministry of Justice but they are on holiday... any alternative numbers ?

[natalie]

Hi, sorry to hear about your experience, it must have been awful for both of you.

I did a quick search on google for you, to see if I could find out any more information for you, and found this

bailiff advice online . co . uk / magistrates

EDIT: You will have to type the address into your browser, taking out all the spaces, I'm guessing its been hacked because every time I put a link up it goes to the Teletubbies website. I presume its some thuggish tosser thinking he's funny or clever or something

In particular this bit

"the Ministry of Justice have appointed 7 individual Managers at HM Court Service to receive complaints (one for each area of the country). "

It might be worth giving them a ring to find out who you need to speak to.

Also get in touch with your MP, there is no way you and your wife should be intimidated and threatened like this. Ring the office of your MP tomorrow and tell him/her you need his/her help immediately because these thugs have threatened to come back.

If they do come back in the meantime, lock the doors and dial 999 straight away.

Phone the Magistrates Court tomorrow and ask to speak to the Clerk to the Justice, tell them what happened and tell them you and your wife (make sure you mention she is ill because then it has to be sent back to the court) are frightened.

Next phone your local newspaper and newsroom... both BBC and independent..... and if you are feeling up to it drop Watchdog an email about it too.

[coppullcaveman1]

I managed to get a hearing with the magistrates for tomorrow Natalie, as for contacting the MP, I would like to know how he voted on the right to force entry... is ther anyway to find out ?
I have many friends in broadcasting, both BBC and independent but I shun publicity with twice the vigour that they embrace it,
I may have to request an adjournment as I have not had enough time to gather all the information I need, only granted the hearing on Monday and been scrabbling around for WBD (weapons of Bailiff Destruction) I will post back tomorrow and comment on the Magistrates comments.

[natalie]

I would write down everything that happened with the magistrate to present tomorrow.. these bullies are representing them, therefore they have to be made aware to how they are behaving.

I appreciate how you feel about publicity, but sometimes its necessary to embarrass the courts into realising that the very people they are hiring are breaking the law more than the people they are being sent to collect money from.

Good luck tomorrow.

[coppullcaveman1]

Thanks Natalie, I have prepared my form 4 complaint and I have my argument prepared however, I am unsure if these were certificated bailiffs or just enforcement officers, apparently there is a difference and there may be limits as to what the punishments are for enforcement officers acting on behalf of the court service.
The one I called wouldnt tell me a thing about his certification, neither would the company he works for, Marstons.

[natalie]

This might help

"
Which bailiff companies can enforce the warrant?

As there are currently in excess of 950,000 warrants in existence, Her Majesty’s Court Service started the process of tendering for outside agencies to enforce these unpaid Magistrate Court fines. This led to contracts being awarded to the following 3 bailiff companies in April 2006. The companies are:

• Marston Group Ltd...... Four contracts
• Philips Collection Services Ltd...... Two contracts
• Swift Credit Services Ltd...... One contract

Does the bailiff/enforcement officer have to be Certificated?
Although bailiffs executing warrants for Magistrates Court fines do not have to be certificated by law, when the Department of Constitutional Affairs (now the Ministry of Justice) awarded these contracts, they included within them a provision that the bailiffs must be Certificated Bailiffs. Therefore, there is a contractual obligation, not a legal one that they must be certificated. However, we understand that each bailiff company have in fact been given a 6 month grace period for their bailiffs to become certificated.

Almost always, a bailiff will arrive at your home and produce a photo ID card…this is not proof that he is a Certificated Bailiff. For further information on this, please refer to the front page of our site and look at the link entitled: All about Bailiffs

[natalie]

So I would imagine from that, that although legally he didnt have to be certified, Marstons would be breaking their contract with the MoJ if he wasnt.

[natalie]

I have just been discussing this with a police officer friend of mine.

He has suggested ringing your local police station tomorrow and making an appointment with the Inspector. Explain the situation, and hopefully they will put a "flag" on your address, so any calls to your address would be treated as a priority should these bullies turn up again and they will already be aware of the situation.

[coppullcaveman1]

It would seem so now the 6 month grace period will have expired, I wasnt even shown any id.
I know that when fines of a criminal nature are involved they can force entry , I just dont know when they can do it or what force they can use or indeed I can use to defend my property.
My main problem with the fines is they were acquired by my teenage stepchildren and my wife is being held responsible for paying them even though she has never had any dealings with the police or courts, she is not a criminal. My wife has no income of her own, and I do not have parental responsibility for the kids ( they are 18 and 19 now) so I dont think it is my place to pay it.. I tried my hand at discipline once and was arrested and charged with assault for frog marching my stepson out of the house, the justice system has taken away our rights as parents / step parents to enforce discipline yet it still holds us accountable for the actions of our offspring . this country is screwed up, lets book a flight, pack up and f*** off out of here ! ( flip off in case you were wondering)

[coppullcaveman1]

From what I understand the police have little idea about the law where bailiffs are concerned and more often than not the aid entry into your property. The Bailiffs wont be back just yet, maybe on Friday... watch the news lol

[ambershadow]

From what I have read and only on this forum they have to give you a time and 14 days notice to break into your property.

WhY DON't you pm tomtubby she is the expert

[coppullcaveman1]

already did but she must have a life away from here
By the way when the Bailiff first appeared I called the debt management charity I am with "Christians Against Poverty" The contacted the court who said their hands were tied as the matter was now with the bailiffs so they couldnt call the bailiff off.
Christians called me back and told me it was no go. So ... I called the court and explained the situation to them, I also told them that I KNOW they can call the bailiff off... I dont THINK , I KNOW, at this point the lady spoke to her supervisor and the bailiff was stood down until our appearance at court in 11.5 hours time.
I will present our case as well as I can myself as we have not had time to seek legal representation and will post details of what went on along with what evidence I presented by way of my complaint against the bailiff, I don`t intend to stop there either, if these thugs are certificated I am gunning for their certificates in a big way. The trouble is you generally cant get justice unless you can pay for it !
We can only try, and dont forget check out what your MP has voted for and against and if you dont like it let them know.
I have emailed my MP and asked how he voted on the forced entry issue, I will post his response here .
Im no Rompole but I`m very very angry at what these thugs put us through and determined to take this as far as I can.
Thanks for all your advice up to now, you never know.. I may be able to give some back soon, Regards all

Shaun

[tomtubby]

Originally Posted by natalie

Hi, sorry to hear about your experience, it must have been awful for both of you.

I did a quick search on google for you, to see if I could find out any more information for you, and found this

bailiff advice online . co . uk / magistrates

EDIT: You will have to type the address into your browser, taking out all the spaces, I'm guessing its been hacked because every time I put a link up it goes to the Teletubbies website. I presume its some thuggish tosser thinking he's funny or clever or something

In particular this bit

"the Ministry of Justice have appointed 7 individual Managers at HM Court Service to receive complaints (one for each area of the country). "

It might be worth giving them a ring to find out who you need to speak to.

Natalie.

The website is ours and the reason for the site changing to Teletubbies is because the website is a commercial site and cannot be advertised here on CAG. I have to respect the owners of this site for this decision.

Sadly, the Ministry of Justice have agreed that Marston & Philips Ltd ( their two appointed bailiff companies may use UNCERTIFICATED BAILIFFS when enforcing these unpaid court fines. To my mind this is utter madness but despite many letters of complaint...this will not change

We have a database of all certificated bailiffs in the UK and Wales and I can search the database for you in the morning to see if both bailiffs are certificated. I already know the answer on one of the bailiffs !! ( As there are only 1,400 bailiffs in the UK, we come across certain names very often).

There have been some changes to the contact details of the relevant Contract Mangers who Complaints about the conduct of bailiffs enforcing these fines can be sent to so if you could PM me with details of the area that you live in I can pass the details to do.

As for a FORM 4 Complaint....... as you will know this is a Complaint against a CERTIFICATED BAILIFF and therefore it CANNOT be used if the bailiff does not have a certificate !!!

What is the reason for you going to Court in the morning ?

[coppullcaveman1]

I persueded the court to call off the bailiffs and put us back before the court, they temporarily suspended the enforcement pending the outcome of the court appearance.
I have no idea if these thugs were certificated or not, therefore I cannot complain to anyone except the Chorley magistrates so I will attempt that tomorrow,

[natalie]

:S I didnt see anywhere that it was charging, just giving advice on dealing with Bailiffs.

Tomtubby, if the bailiff is unlicenced, wouldnt they be in breach of contract with the MoJ who stipulated that all bailiffs working for the courts must be licenced?

Might be a route to go down if you fail to get answers from anywhere else.

[coppullcaveman1]

Had the distress warrants returned to The Magistrates, bailiff fees gone and have made a complaint to the police which rhey tried to brush off over the phone but once I quoted some sections and paragraphs they decided to grant me an audience tomorrow at 7pm
Should I persue this or not ? mmmmm not sure , uncharted territory for me, might help if any other gaggers have had dealings with Marstons D. Roberts and Mr. Whiteside and suffered similar abuse and mis-representation.

[natalie]

Absolutely you should pursue it. The way they treated you and your wife was abhorrent... and next time it might be some little old lady on her own.

Found this number for you to find out if they are registered
Ministry of Justice Public Register of Bailiffs on 020 3334 6355

[coppullcaveman1]

They are not certificated, and that was the issue that would have given me better options, Tomtubby has come across the names before and is working hard on our behalf to take this as far as it will go.
Im not too sure about the police complaint as I cannot access legal help unless I pay for it. I see it as I have been a victim of a crime and the police have a duty to investigate it but I have the strangest feeling I will be stonewalled as much as possible.

[natalie]

You have been a victim of a crime, so dont take no for an answer, if the coper tells you its a private matter ask to speak to someone senior. Also, get in touch with your MP and councillors, you might be surprised at how much more helpful some people are if they know that your MP/ councillor is involved